HERE HERE! Ozy. I am writing this in a sleep-deprived stupor, but I needed to hear this today. You see I was on my way UP in the medical corporate world. I had been let into the inner sanctum of organizational hierarchy. I was a Chief Medical Officer (CMO) with supervisory powers over the Chief Financial Officer. I was literally next in line to the CEO! I started off, out of the gates with this job, that was thrust upon me by the way, in true ENFP form. I, as the CEO put it, "personally turned this company around in a moment of dire need" (paraphrased of course, who can remember the exact words?). Once the crisis was over and fixed, I not only began to lose interest, but also began to sabotage my position in the organization. I was bored, stressed, clueless, stressed, overwhelmed and stressed. Who knows how to do this stuff ALL THE TIME!!! In short bursts it is great, but this was never ending and always the same stuff. I created an assistant position and ...... oh you guessed it?!?! Yes, As of today, that person is now the new CMO. The truth is, she is way better at this stuff than me. I am actually relieved, because once the excitement of the total chaos was gone, I was left with actually trying to keep up with "I and T personalities",as you put it, on their turf in their world. I could not fool them at all. There was no way for me to charm them with the droll details of daily business.

Oh well. I think I am better for it. I have only been out of the position for 12 hours now, but I feel like I am missing something already. It will be bitter sweet, bitter because I will miss being a part of the solution, sweet because I can have a life outside of work and let a personality more suited to the position cover those details.

I want that CEO position someday too, not sure if or when I'll get there now. I could have really used some other personality traits over the past several months. If you do find that "plastic surgeon", let me know. I need a brain lift here.

Hello,

I surfed in here a while ago when I was browsing the web for ENFP stuff, but I just registered today. Being ENFP is not a curse in my opinion, but it's a blessing. Following through, focusing deeply on one single thing for a prolongued period of time and staying on topic? They're ENFP weaknesses which you have to learn to live with. If you challenge those weaknesses enough you will find yourself improving on those points, but it will always be frustrating and painful. My advice would be to make use of tools or techniques to keep your focus.


First a little bit about me. I've worked for the same company for 6 years now, which is respectable for an ENFP I guess. It's a government agency providing meaningful education and jobs for unemployed people. The organisation counts about 5000 people, and it has an IT department of roughly 150 people, where I've been working over the past 6 years.

How did I manage to do the same job for 6 years? Actually I didn't. The first 2 years I was still studying and did some web tier development (ASP) and administrative tasks. About half a year before I graduated I started working as a Java developer. A year and a half later I started as an Oracle PL/SQL developer, after taking some courses. I became technical project leader half a year later, and continued to do this until the end of May 2006. Meanwhile I had been following management courses in my spare time, and had some experience with people working for me. Since June last year I've been working as software release manager.

This learns me I have an attention span of about 1,5 or 2 years in a certain profession. If the organization is large enough, I'm convinced ENFP's can carry on growing or climbing up (atleast till they reach a certain point). The advantage of a large organisation is that, even when you change to a different job, the people you know with in the company (your network) still remain partially the same. Being who we are, we create lots and lots of goodwill in the people we work with and work for. In situations where for instance certain painful problems need to be resolved, it helps knowing a lot of people personally, in order to reach an acceptible compromise sooner. ENFP's are master diplomats :)

For me a large company is the solution for the job hopping issue. It only works if you believe in the company and it's goals, and if you can identify yourself with it, atleast as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't have done the same in a cold anonymous banking or finance environment...


What about focus? If there's nothing but chaos, a problem that appears to be too complex to solve, or a work environment full of emotional minefields and people working in clans rather than together... I gain access to an undepletable energy source, and can accomplish amazing things. ENFP's are excellent change managers in my opinion. Unfortunately when details, procedures and day in day out issues become the menu of the day, things quickly become boring.

Additionally, while I believe I have done quite a good job improving the existing release management procedures, my time management sucks badly, and there are days when I neglect some of my core tasks, and waste time chasing unimportant details. I've faced this problem before I was a release manager, but not that many people depended on the things I did back then.

How can you solve this problem? I think you can't, or actually not really in my opinion. It's the way my mind works... Todo lists are useful until the next brilliant idea makes me forget about the todo list and run off in a different direction. There are a few tools or techniques I use to reduce the effect of my 'randomness'.

- Schedule team or status meetings on a regular basis. Doing so will reduce the length of the action points / todo lists for everyone, and work will be more manageable in the end, in terms of follow up.

- Don't assign tasks to yourself that include a significant amount of detail, even when the idea or the concept behind it is very interesting on its own. Delegate!

- Attract a soundboard, and function as a soundboard yourself. No one is perfect, and everyone has certain skills and certain weaknesses. Realizing where you lack is an important step towards countering your them. In every job you will sooner or later be confronted with problems that attack your weaknesses. Having a colleague, or multiple, whom you can use as a soundboard, helps a lot in those circumstances. Bounce your ideas off of them, and use the feedback you're given. I'm not sure what the cause of this is, but many times something only becomes clear to me when I get it back from a second person perspective. Writing something down, and reading it anew the next day is another helpful technique, in that context. Somehow we ENFP's are unable to organize our thoughts internally, and need to use the outside world to bring structure into our thoughts. Well, in my experience anyway.

This has worked for me so far, and it keeps me in check most of the time. I'm not sure this still works when you have a CEO position though, because you need people you can trust, and rely on, and who know what you are talking about. Also, the people I use most as a soundboard are indeed thinkers or judgers (ESTP=pragmatism/realism, INTJ=strategy, ISTJ=procedures).

Anyway, I hope this gives some food for thought.
Cheers, voot

AMEN! I specifically came to this site looking for ENFP input for those of us with 'established careers' unable to just walk out of our job on a ENFP vision when you're just about ready to stab your eyes out with sharp pencils during the weekly division status meeting because you've exceeded the ENFP's shelf-life in one's workplace.

About me ... I'm a lead IT specialist and technical project manager with a rather large federal government agency and have worked in the same office for a little over three years, and over 12 years in the IT industry. I was recently promoted to what is the highest non-supervisory technical grade level for my job field last month. I pretty much manage technology projects that I am the lead technical engineer and may have a contract engineer or two that assist me with some of the project taskings; but am not required to supervise them in the HR sense but functionally lead a few staff members from the technology aspect ... meaning that I do most of my own work and within my self-set time schedules and deadlines.

Last year I temporarily filled a role as an 'acting' supervisor and site team leader in a busy operational environment ... and was doing well ... until I hit a brick wall plateau mid-year about the same time I was rotated out of the position, giving another peer employee a turn at 'acting' in the supervisory role for the sake of gaining experience. The timing was good - i rotated just days before completely exhausting myself, I then moved to a non-operational development role and took over a couple highly-visible technical projects, turned them around, and pumped out some good results like a kiddie in a Kathy Lee sweatshop ... but I'm absolutely miserable. It's to the point that it takes every ounce of energy I got just to get out of bed in the morning and make it into work still keeping fashionably late but geting worse arrival times ... and remaining somewhat unnoticed.

I feel like I'm dipping my toes into the edge of the abyss ... long-term-burnout and depression ... which is pretty much ENFP purgatory ... and have been feeling very disconnected, bitter, miserable, bored, life-hating, and lost. This time is different than the occasional episode of introversion/rechargin ... I'm finding it hard to even use my imagination to dream the "what do I want to be when I grow up" career scenarios or "if I won the lottery" etc., and this time I'm somewhat stuck at a point financially that I really cannot afford to take any extended time off or form of salary cut to explore new career opportunites or pick up a new job as I have a significant other, house, pets, etc., that I have to consider and that would be greatly affected.

Lo and behold ... I attended a mandatory training course this week on "Basic Leadership and Management Skills", the first in a series of three required of those at my grade level. We re-visited the MBTI test and spent a whole day on MB type analysis and classroom exercises/discussion. It enthralled me and really hit home. It had been years since my last test and it was totally what I needed to do some self-analysis and get my arms around the root of what has been going on with me and my career. Once again MB type analysis has shed light on the tools I can utilize to figure this one out - similar to the "ugly lights" that come on at the bar/club when it's closing time.

I'm just throwing this post out there to see what y'all think ... I'm ecstatic to find similar posts and a website of brothers and sisters of type. I guess it's a misery-loves-company thing ... and I am looking for the company before I get to the point of no return and completely implode mentally and emotionally and turn into a shadow of my ENFP self.

I've got enough of a good reputation at work that I can ride out a "slump" until it passes without drawing attention to myself from upper management ... but now I'm almost on borrowed time ... and I need to either have an epiphany or get off the preverbial porcelain pot.

I'm looking forward to reading reply posts ... and I appreciate everyone who has contributed to this website and have shared innermost thoughts and feelings that are so much a part of the ENFP type. I'm sooo happy that there are others out there.

-fred

Hi there Ozy.

A few years later, I am reading your post and wondering how you went in your career. Did you manage to integrate your own ISTJ quality management abilities, or did you find them in others? Jung's shadow work is profound and I believe ENFPs have a strong capacity to integrate their shadows without a big drama.

Cheers
Jane
ENFP
Australia

My God, these are the LONGEST string of posts I have EVER seen from ENFP's... lol... I usually see short sentences, a few words, and that's it! LOL

I am an INTJ. Sorry, I don't mean to personality crash your forum, I was just curious what ya'll were writing about over here... :oP

Ozy, I don't have time to reply to all you have written today, but I am interested in responding. You have put a lot out there, so I will say a few short things off of the the cuff, and then visit this again later and do you due diligence.

1. You have a fundamental understanding of what drives the need for your type within Corportate America, and this does impress me, as I have long seen this myself, and I often have trouble getting people to see it who are actually in those positions, or other people. It is convenient for a coroporation when they have people filling those roles who actually believe the bs they are spinning.

2. If you want to be a CEO, and not compromise your values, then go start your own business. Save your money, pay off your house, cars etc, then go start your own business. People do it all the time for exactly that reason. This is the largest reason why business are born, not because people want to be rich. But becasue they want control over their own life, and because they want a culture in which people are treated differently.

I'll come back and talk more later.

>> Anyone know any "GOOD" Personality Plastic Surgeons?!?! <<

No. But Vicky Jo, an INFJ who posts a lot over on the INTJ personality type tribe is one of the best I have seen on tribe as far as not only understanding and explaining Type structures, but also in wielding the theory practically and effectively to help people see other truths about themselves.

>> I've been saddled with this ENFP thing for about 3 decades and it's getting a bit tired....aka...boring/frustrating. As I "look out" and around (when do I never *STOP* doing that?)...Can't it be just nice and cool to look in for prolonged periods longer than say 2 seconds? Ok, I'm off topic already *gah* and I just started typing. <<

You make it sound like being yourself is such a chore!!! lol... and I think it shouldn't be. Maybe you are just venting and don't mean it... lol

>> WARNING: THESE FOLLOWING CONCLUSIONS ARE FROM AN ENFP...DO NOT EXPECT RIGOROUS ANALYSIS! <<

Warning: THESE following comments are from and INTJ... expect something logical, thought through and heartfelt, but not necessarily without flaw.

>> My thesis: I'm worried that ENFP types and very "big dreamers" are often out-competed for positions of influence and success in the corporate wolrd by other personality types. Given that globalization is driving us to increased corporate organizational growth and interaction, I feel that ENFPs (much less rewarded than other types) may find themselves, as a personality group, left out of leadership roles in the decision making process of the firm. As certain I and T type temperaments are rewarded for positions of leadership, so too organizations become more I and T hiring, thus leaving the E and P people out in the cold or in as subordinate position in either the HR or Customer Service Departments. <<

Corporate business cultures do tend to reward people, especially at the executive level, who exibit the ability to a) make logical plans that work in a practical, predictable way and b) drive those plans to conclusion, preferably in a scheduled or timely way. As it turns out, these are exactly the attributes that xxTJ people are most talented at exhibiting.

I am not disputing your claim that Extraverts seem to be left out at your company. indeed, I do not know the specifics of the culture of where you work. However, in general, I do perceive that ExTJ's have as much to offer the executive culture as do IxTJ's, each with their own special talents.

>> Now, I have nothing against Customer Service, HR, and Corporate Training. I myself have worked in both HR and Customer Support for years. <<

:o)

>> Heck! I lie.... <<

Hello! :oP

>> I have worked in all these positions and I despise them (as they are traditionally defined) because "touchy-feely" is not a corporate imperative. It's something firms implement so that these operational functions fulfill the role of ensuring that human interaction is effective and that people (employees and clients) in a firm don't break any laws and can act civilly to each other. These positions are not revenue units and stakeholders in driving corporate profits or business strategy. They're mainly cost functions and are still tied to the constraint that the units of production called humans, need to be properly "handled". We the ENFPs are the best handlers out there. Even in purely service businesses (consulting, law, investments) that rely on continuous personal interaction, ENFPs are, not to my knowledge, in positions of leadership to craft service strategy beyond the pre-defined role of the operational "care giver" aka "human handler". And I won't even touch Sales here!! We're great farmers (aka Client Support), but tragic hunters (aka Closers and slick Ferrari Drivers) due to both our strong sense of ethics and our need to please others. As such, Client Support roles will always be subordinate to Sales and Business Development roles. <<

Perceivers, in general, prefer to leave things open-ended. As such, they don't really feel the most comfortable in the mode of driving things to conclusion; i.e., the "closer". Hence, that's what the ferrari drivers do.

Your perception of the non-revenue creating position, and what their function really is, is quite accurate, though. Ever get the feeling that your purpose for your role isn't quite what your told it is?

>> So, the ENFP is faced with a problem. In order to survive in the corporate world and reach the executive suite, she has to adapt to the demands that an I and T and J work environment have placed on her. <<

the T and J, yes. The E can actually work wonders for you, though. To grow into these roles and perform them effectively, you will need to get skills outside of your comfort zone. And become good at them.

>> Sure, she can smell the stifling stench of the boring and self-involved spreadsheet drones that pass her desk everyday sipping the same stale coffee and eating the same dry-buttered bagle. She's mad as hell! She wants out! She's ready to just switch off her computer and *LEAVE* that very minute. She has no need for 2 weeks notice because she's highly adaptable and can get literally *ANY* job she puts her mind to within a week or less. Enough of this waste of precious life-essence!! However...it would be the 5th time she's left a company in 10 years and her career will continue to sparkle like shards of broken and cut opportunities over the years. She needs new options, dammit! She wants to be CEO and lead the people (and even some of the drones) forward! She has a vision! <<

But it would be the FIRST time she has left to start her own company. Title: CEO and President.

>> So, How does she adapt? <<

I dunno! How?? How does shee????!!!!

>> I say, she should find a way to "Re-engineer" F into T and P into J. <<

Not re-engineer. Grow beyond what she currenty feels she is. Broaden. Then you incorporate BOTH skills into your actions and decsion making process. It's like skiing with two ski's instead of slolam. You are better balanced.

>> Is this realistically possible? Can this be done effectively and in such a way (game etc) that the ENFP understands that what she is, at best, role playing, and managing human perceptions around her? Or, must this only be done with some chemical intervention such as ADDHD medicines etc? Should she get a I/T/J type partner with whom to team up to move up to the top?<<

If you sold yourself out this way, how would you feel as a person? just to move up? really? Is that what you REALLY want? THAT badly?

Then, I say go do it! The quickest and most effectivce way to regret it is to do it!

Sorry, my battery ran down so I had to cut that last one short...


Is this realistically possible? Can this be done effectively and in such a way (game etc) that the ENFP understands that what she is, at best, role playing, and managing human perceptions around her? Or, must this only be done with some chemical intervention such as ADDHD medicines etc? Should she get a I/T/J type partner with whom to team up to move up to the top? If so, won't the other type get picked over her when it comes to the corner office? After all, we can't have a "bubbly" female CEO of a Fortune 1000 company, shaking everyone's hands, can we?

I must say, that I have never known an ENFP to be "obsessed" with moving up a "corporate ladder". Not when they apparently know the true nature of what a corporation is and what it stands for.

Legally, a corporation is that same as a person, except it doesn't have a soul. Instead, it has shareholders (who each have souls, by the way, although some may and some may not be aware of it), and whose only common, collective goal is the bottom line. Money.

Small business owners, private, and closely held businesses, however, are free to run things how they like, even into the ground. After all, who is going to fire them? Of course the answer is that they have to be realistic and not let that happen, or they won't be in business very long. However, there is some solice in the truth that they are free, to some level, to run things based on more personal values, other than the bottom line.

But, if you are determined to make it in corporate america, I would propose that you do a few things to help yourself if you haven't already:

1. Education: do you have an MBA, and some other special certification or skill that is valued in your company? If so, this will open some doors for opportunity. It is very important that you take the opportunities that you are provided, and do well in them, both on the technical side (if there is one), and also on the leadership/pro-active side. You need to understand the soft side of people, and understand how to report to those above you to show yourself in a good light. Even in the event of delayed schedules, there are ways you can report, and look badly, and ways you can report, and look as though you are on top of things and doing the company good in a bad situation. And if you are not good at controlling those perceptions, then those around you and above you will control them for you, with you being the one who looks bad. I suspect you have a natual talent at managing this aspect of things.

2. Don't assume that upper level executives are shunning you because you are bubbly, or not like them. Everything I have said above about corporate america is true. But there are also some very good people in executive positions who also look for good people to groom. I don't mean that they look for the top academics to groom, rather, they look for GOOD people. People with some sense of shared values and ethics. People are smart, and they can see through a charade, or if someone is "role-playing" to get ahead or move to the next assignment as opposed to behaving as who they really are. There are also some very unethical people in the executive ranks. Many in fact. But even they are not COMPLETELY without ethics as much as some part of them is flawed, or has been compromised.

Essentially, you need to decide on someone, or a few people even, who you want to mentor you, and court them. They are the gate keepers, and you want them to open some doors for you. But when you get them interested, you need to be sincere and do due diligence.

You can start by taking on roles of leadership, and being successful in them. Yes, this means driving projects to a conclusion in a timely manner. If you have already done this, then the next step is to get your boss involved more by presenting your interests as a career plan for yourself. Make a special event out of it, and show how it ties in with company needs and values, as well as slanting it toward some of his and yours shared personal values. Make him WANT to help you.

3. Once this happens, you need to continue to be successful in the roles you are in (complete projects on time, and under budget, and if you don't, have a very very very very good reason why you didn't, and don't make it sound like an excuse. And honestly, if you have done this right, you won't need to explain, others will do it for you.)

You want your boss, and his boss, and his boss (probably a vp at this point) to know who you are, and to think good things when they hear your name. When they are looking for someone to fill the shoes of the next assignment, you want your boss to say, "... you know, Ozy has demonstrated this particular set of skills on other projects in the past, and would probably be a good fit for this assignment. She could be successful at it, and it would also be a growth experience for her in the magnitude of her responsibilities..."

Notice what I said? At the point, you want your boss inserting your name as a top candidate to those above him, and who are also already familiar with who you are, to handle a job. That is, you want him to have enough faith in YOUR reliability that he will stake HIS reputation on YOURS. Get it? If you come across as flakey, or anything less than 100% reliable at ANY point during your professional relationship with him, he won't stake his reputation on yours.

It doesn't necessarily have to be your boss, but it is true that without his support, things get extremely more complicated and difficult if you want to move up.

4. Lastly, I would ask if you feel you are in the right industry for yourself? Meaning, the product that your company produces and sells... is that something that YOU believe in? (as opposed to the roles you value personally, which are not revenue generators for the company in and of themselves, but as you have rightly said, keep the people in check and allow the company engine to run smoothly?) I keep coming back to the starting your own business thing because I suspect it is not, and I can see an ENFP involved in something involving a people relations business much more... like an employment placement outsouce firm, product advertising, etc....

>> Maybe I'm just paranoid and prone to flights of fancy, but I worry that ENFPs influence in world will wane as others wax and, if anything, we shouldn't just it "be so" because that's our type. <<

Well, I will say that when people rely to heavily on their first and second functions, life has a way of pushing back on you in a negative way. Couresy of both my own experience, and many discussions with Vicky Jo, and independant reading on my own.

For an ENFP, your first two functions are going to be extraverted iNtuition (Ne), and introverted Feeling (Fi). I would suggest developing your extraverted Thinking (Te), and at least getting in touch with your introverted Sensing (Si). And if you are already there, then I would suggest developing your Si, and at least discovering and embracing your shadow functions (Ni, Fe, Ti, Se), which will not be pleasant, but is what you are describing above when you talk about "re-engineering" yourself. In fact, I would suggest you TRY to re-engineer yourself. You will fail. Instead, you will find that going through the processes, you will have done exactly what you really needed to do, which is to broaden your ability to use other, untapped skills, all from an ENFP perspective.

>> I'm no longer interested in "living my type"! My type is afflicted some critical liabilities and they're costing me my big career dreams! How can I change before it's too late? <<

Bingo... this is the "life leaning back on you..." that I was talking about above... ;o)

>> I'm open to suggestions or ideas or any advice that this wonderful group of ENFPs can share. <<

Sorry, I am not an ENFP. You don't have to listen to or follow anything I have said.

>> Cheers,
Apologies for bad grammar and erroneous spelling! <<

It's ok! I don't worry about my spelling either... was trying to get through this pretty quickly... :oP

>> Ozymandus... <<

good Luck! - Wyatt